Sietas 'Typ 9' & 'Typ 9b' differences-details required ?

[CPTEPT]

Dear All,

unfortunately my Germans are limited, but am trying to find out information, did anyone knows what was the difference of a coaster (..mostly built on 60's) of Sietas 'Typ 9' and 'Typ 9b' both of limited edition, i.e. only very few built that time by this superb ever German Yard ?

NB: I know that there are some information available on various sources and the well known book with the various designs built by the yard but am afraid that there is a mixed-up of information which tends to be inaccurate or even wrong.
Information verified and duly supported needed, only.

rgds
cptept

[mirkman]

According to the german wikipedia article, the type 9b had slightly larger cargo holds. But I'm sure you already knew that. Unfortunately there is nothing more written about the differences between the types and I also have no further information.

[CPTEPT]

Thank you mirkman! Yes, i know that source, as well. Am not sure if it is only this difference, being a Captain for a while in one the 'Typ 9' Canopus -IMO 6611784 can at least on observing photos verify that she had three(3) sister ships, The 'Planet' -IMO 6510849, YN 527, The 'Hans Bulow' -IMO 6511489 YN 552, The 'Atheras' -IMO 6611904, YN 578. The 'Marie Rusch' -IMO6510942, YN 557, referred as 'Typ 9' but actually (..on pictures at least) she has a forth derrick No'2' hold, a detail that is significant and not exist on the other four, as above, vessels.

Thank you.

[mirkman]

I suppose the former MARIE RÜSCH wasn't actually built with that additional derrick, rather I guess that she had many different owners in her +40 years lifetime, and one of them decided by whatever reasons to add an additional derrick. That retrofit would perhaps result in some additional class notation (I don't know how big that change was), but it doesn't actually change the original type.
But sorry again, all that does not answer your initial question.

[Tham]

Hello,

in the book "Die Deutsche Handelsflotte 1987/88" there is a plan and main details for MARIE I ex MARIA RUSS ex MARIE RÜSCH, showing that she had 3 hatches, of which no. 2 was longer to accommodate the extra crane, so I believe she was built initially with 4 cranes, in "Die Deutsche Handelsflotte 1974/75" is the same for CANOPUS, showing 3 hatches of same length and 3 cranes:

MARIE I ex MARIE RÜSCH, yn 557, delivery 06.03.1965, 499,78 GRT, 357,03 NRT, 1270 tdw, 4 mastcranes, hatches: 1=10.20x6.50m 2=18.00x8.00m 3=10.20x8.00m, grain 3086 cbm
CANOPUS, yn 563, Trial 12.05.1966, 499,50 GRT, 343,53 NRT, 1262 tdw, 3 mastcranes, hatches: 1=12.60x7.50 2+3=12.60x8.00m, grain 103200 cft

so maybe MARIE RÜSCH was type "9" and CANOPUS was "9b", if you let me know an email adress I can let you have scans of the 2 plans and main details

rgds Tham

[CPTEPT]

Thanks Tham.
send you a PM.
But i strongly believe that she is a 'Typ 9'(the CANOPUS).

[Tham]

HELGA WEHR and WILKEN had two tonnages, as full- and shelterdecker, but the same main dimensions as CANOPUS and MARIE RÜSCH which had only one tonnage, in German we used to call them "Wechselschiffe", maybe that is the difference between 9 and 9b
rgds Tham

[CPTEPT]

Dear Martin, Thank you.
I fill up the missing IMO numbers, on your list below and commenting for each one of them:

The four ladies below are identical, on almost everything(i.e. design configuration was the same
but three of them had ‘Deutz’ as main engine, while one had a ‘MAK’):

Wieland, IMO 6611904, YN 578, delivered to Partenreederei Tamke, Konigreich u/Jork,
vessel subsequently in her long history, traded in Greece(Greek Flag) under the name ‘ATHERAS’
Canopus, IMO 6611784, YN 563, delivered to Captain Willi Eckert in Cranz, vessel subsequently
in her long history, traded in Greece(Greek Flag) under the name ‘Zakinthos’ partly owned by
the family of the undersigned, on which I firstly captained.
Hans Bülow, IMO 6511489, YN 527, delivered to Kapitan Hans Bulow in Reinbek
Planet, IMO 6510849, YN 552, am not sure about this, my little Germans not assisting me
but I think that this vessel as well, was built for Kapitan Hans Bulow,


All the information gathered by the Historic Archives published on the Hamburger Abendblatt, using
on the ‘suche’, key words like the building names of the vessels, or expressions that could possibly
assist, like ‘offenes schiff’.
Unfortunately, research not revealed any information about the more technical details of the original
Request, i.e. the difference between the ‘Typ’ 9 & 9b, which in some cases referred(..the 9b) as ‘Type 96’
a reference which is not correct, am afraid.
It is curious that many of these vessels were delivered to individuals i.e. captains according to the relevant
frequently appeared articles. By that saying, research on the above issues revealed that J.J. Sietas usually
a month or so, a week maybe, or on the delivery day issued a small ‘press release’ stating mostly that
they are delivering the said vessel to a named party(..as mentioned above, mostly individuals or partnerships).
To my understanding, vessels have been built mostly for the North European trades, where specialized
charterers seems that mostly like these coasters(..but mostly German Owned). Some charterers mostly
appeared on vessel’s sides, were ‘AROS LINE’ (Swedish) or RMS, or an ‘A’ painted on the funnel with black top
and bottom stripes, or other names trading that time(60’s)
Believe that, the building order party was actually a trader or a charterer, ?

Type 9 (1100/1900 tdw)
Anita Adele, IMO 5019755(the correct IMO is 5017955, but this is a complete different design from the well said
‘Typ 9’, i.e. aft post masts, four(4)double derricks, two hatches, etc)

Anna Becker, IMO 6500909(vessel was trading in ITALY and GREECE for some time(and still does),
by close owners as ‘LENA’ or ‘LENA I’, a different design, with two holds, four or separated hatches,
double fore and aft derricks but single derricks fore and aft in the middle.

Hans Bülow, IMO 6511489(as above mentioned)

Nautica, IMO 6518425(the particular IMO NO, belongs to another coaster of Kroger Werft)
The J.J Sietas ‘Nautica’ that I can find has an IMO NO=6405305, which again is a different design with three(3)
masts, mast-house, two(2) derricks or four.
http://7seasvessels.com/?s=Nautica

Planet, IMO 6510849(as above mentioned)

Annchen Felter, IMO 6512407 (?)no information, no picture despite serious efforts.

Thor, IMO 6513467(the correct IMO is 6513487), she is a sister ship of Anna Becker above mentioned,
same deck configuration, etc.
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/pho ... lid=461828
http://coasters-remembered.net/showthre ... ht=6513487


Marie Rüsch, IMO 6510942, YN 557, this is the only one like the first four mentioned that have four(4) derricks
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/pho ... id=1311782


Canopus, IMO 6611784(as above mentioned)
Wieland, IMO 6611904(as above mentioned)



Type 9b (1200/2200 tdw)
Helga Wehr, IMO 6609664
http://7seasvessels.com/wp-content/uplo ... dsburg.jpg

Wilken, IMO 6611916
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/pho ... id=1703509

It could be the case, as ‘Tham’ stated that these vessels have two different dwt’s(Tham in Greece, we use to called them ‘open’ and ‘closed’)
an expression that I believe has the same meaning with yours(Germans) ‘Wechselschiffe’
In any event, both vessels have a different configuration on the deck, at least fm what I have seen on the photos available. The ‘Wilken’ seems
that built with the capability for container intake. There is a photo, captured her with containers on board and on the aft stbd side painted the
‘RMS’. Again both vessels have four(4) derricks, while the ‘Helga Wehr’ a more complicated compination with double derricks fore and aft.

[CPTEPT]

Dear Tham, can you send me these 2 scans, please?
eliasts@ath.forthnet.gr

Thanks!
Cptept
Athens
Greece

Hello,

in the book "Die Deutsche Handelsflotte 1987/88" there is a plan and main details for MARIE I ex MARIA RUSS ex MARIE RÜSCH, showing that she had 3 hatches, of which no. 2 was longer to accommodate the extra crane, so I believe she was built initially with 4 cranes, in "Die Deutsche Handelsflotte 1974/75" is the same for CANOPUS, showing 3 hatches of same length and 3 cranes:

MARIE I ex MARIE RÜSCH, yn 557, delivery 06.03.1965, 499,78 GRT, 357,03 NRT, 1270 tdw, 4 mastcranes, hatches: 1=10.20x6.50m 2=18.00x8.00m 3=10.20x8.00m, grain 3086 cbm
CANOPUS, yn 563, Trial 12.05.1966, 499,50 GRT, 343,53 NRT, 1262 tdw, 3 mastcranes, hatches: 1=12.60x7.50 2+3=12.60x8.00m, grain 103200 cft

so maybe MARIE RÜSCH was type "9" and CANOPUS was "9b", if you let me know an email adress I can let you have scans of the 2 plans and main details

rgds Tham